I work for a Big 4 in Europe and I want to continue my carreer in USA (in audit if possible). My firm encourages the international carreers but I think it's not that easy. Do you know anyone that has moved from Europe to USA? How it worked? Hard to fit in? Is it hard to adapt yourshelf to the local GAAP?
There are a lot of people on exchange from Europe. It is a difficult transition since audit is much more intense and detailed than it is in most of Europe. It's funny seeing individuals from other countries audit - might as well audit by inquiry sometimes. As far as adaptation to local GAAP goes, it'll take you time, but you'll get there. Just have to spend some time using the research tools to familiarize yourself depending on the issue.
Wednesday, 10 July 2013
big 4 tax
I'm currently a first year senior in the tax practice for a big 4 firm. The experience so far is nice but I've been thinking a lot about switching to audit. The reasons being, I feel like audit has so much more exit opportunities (Controller, CFO, Partner etc), you get to learn how company operate, and you can basically find a job anywhere in the world not just limited to US. As for tax, I feel like once you are a tax guy, you will always labeled as a tax guy so your exit opportunities will only be limited to jobs related to US tax. Is my understanding correct?
Also, do you think it is a good idea for me to switch given I've invested 3 years in the tax field already? And would I be starting over as a first year audit staff and would I need to take a pay cut? please advise!
I see your point but almost every Company needs a tax expert, and you likely provide more value than accounting experts since it helps the Company implement tax strategies that result in less costs. You are labeled a tax guy but it's such a niche space that the opportunities pay higher and definitely do exist. As far as US tax, there are plenty of sub-groups within tax, so if you chose global tax, there are obviously more opportunities there.
If you'd like to go down the CFO/controller path, you should probably switch, but this isn't to say it's impossible going from tax to controller. I've seen it happen, albeit not common. Depending on the city, you may still be able to start as a senior, but it would depend on your performance reviews and the office's preference. 3 years is still early enough to change. Once we go into year 5, gets very difficult to do so.
Also, do you think it is a good idea for me to switch given I've invested 3 years in the tax field already? And would I be starting over as a first year audit staff and would I need to take a pay cut? please advise!
I see your point but almost every Company needs a tax expert, and you likely provide more value than accounting experts since it helps the Company implement tax strategies that result in less costs. You are labeled a tax guy but it's such a niche space that the opportunities pay higher and definitely do exist. As far as US tax, there are plenty of sub-groups within tax, so if you chose global tax, there are obviously more opportunities there.
If you'd like to go down the CFO/controller path, you should probably switch, but this isn't to say it's impossible going from tax to controller. I've seen it happen, albeit not common. Depending on the city, you may still be able to start as a senior, but it would depend on your performance reviews and the office's preference. 3 years is still early enough to change. Once we go into year 5, gets very difficult to do so.
big 4 experience
keep hearing that having experience from any of the big 4 on your CV is a major advantage in looking for other jobs. But what kind of jobs specifically? Is it limited to just accounting/controller jobs, or are there other types of jobs where a "big 4 background" is held in high regard.
Think I've blogged about this before, but it is a huge advantage to have the big 4 name on your resume, believe me. I've seen this on plenty of recruiter emails - many of which say it's a requirement, the others say that it's preferred. It's limited to accounting/controller positions unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, by no means am I saying that big 4 firms are better than the smaller firms, it's just how the recruiters and companies work, especially since there are likely big 4 alums there.
Think I've blogged about this before, but it is a huge advantage to have the big 4 name on your resume, believe me. I've seen this on plenty of recruiter emails - many of which say it's a requirement, the others say that it's preferred. It's limited to accounting/controller positions unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, by no means am I saying that big 4 firms are better than the smaller firms, it's just how the recruiters and companies work, especially since there are likely big 4 alums there.
moving office locations
Is it difficult to move to a different office location within the same Big 4 Firm? How do you approach this and how important is the timing?
It is difficult the first couple years since there are a plethora of first years and second years at every office - so there is likely no business case for you. It is pretty easy senior associate year and above since there's a business case to be made at every office, especially these days given the lack of resources.
Your best bet would be to go to a partner who likes you and explain where and why you transfer. That partner likely has a contact in the office you want to transfer to, and will put you in touch with them. After this contact likes you and wants you on board, the HR in their office will initiate the process with HR in your office. In terms of timing, start a few months before you want to transfer, and definitely avoid late fall since it goes into busy season. Ideally April-September.
It is difficult the first couple years since there are a plethora of first years and second years at every office - so there is likely no business case for you. It is pretty easy senior associate year and above since there's a business case to be made at every office, especially these days given the lack of resources.
Your best bet would be to go to a partner who likes you and explain where and why you transfer. That partner likely has a contact in the office you want to transfer to, and will put you in touch with them. After this contact likes you and wants you on board, the HR in their office will initiate the process with HR in your office. In terms of timing, start a few months before you want to transfer, and definitely avoid late fall since it goes into busy season. Ideally April-September.
workspace environment
First post since the beginning of busy season. In fact, first post of 2013 and we're more than halfway through 2013. This new audit world we're entering is tiring. Anyways, on to some of the questions I've received since my last post. Please note that I've skipped questions that I touched on before.
One thing that I found interesting was how he told me about the way work stations and cubicles are set up. Left, top, and right sides are all covered with steep sidings resulting in a very anti-social work environment. I also asked him if he's had a chance to befriend co-workers, and he said no - people don't talk to each other unless they have to and people dread working in teams (i.e. it's just a requirement of the job, not actually very team-oriented). Are Audit jobs this depressing of an environment? At least in some finance and consulting jobs you have bullpens and chance to be collegial with people in your level. I guess not so at all in the accounting world? Are people really that boring and fit the stereotypes?
For starters, the first 5-6 years, you're out at clients most of the time, and you're likely sitting in a small room right next to each other, so it can be very social and at the same time it could make you very anti-social in a matter of months depending on your team. Outside of your team, you definitely have the opportunity to socialize with co-workers, especially during trainings when you get to meet them. You also tend to use them as your therapists (except you really want them to shut up so you can vent), so you lean on them a lot. It is definitely a team-oriented job in that everyone needs to do their job for the audit to be efficient and of decent quality. As far as people being boring go, given that most people are between 22-28 and like to have fun and go out a lot, I definitely wouldn't categorize it as boring - especially when compared to regular companies where the medium age is 35 and everyone has pictures of their kids on their desk and go to lunch to the same place every day. Not sure where your friend works - but either that particular office has a bad culture, or your friend doesn't like to socialize.
One thing that I found interesting was how he told me about the way work stations and cubicles are set up. Left, top, and right sides are all covered with steep sidings resulting in a very anti-social work environment. I also asked him if he's had a chance to befriend co-workers, and he said no - people don't talk to each other unless they have to and people dread working in teams (i.e. it's just a requirement of the job, not actually very team-oriented). Are Audit jobs this depressing of an environment? At least in some finance and consulting jobs you have bullpens and chance to be collegial with people in your level. I guess not so at all in the accounting world? Are people really that boring and fit the stereotypes?
For starters, the first 5-6 years, you're out at clients most of the time, and you're likely sitting in a small room right next to each other, so it can be very social and at the same time it could make you very anti-social in a matter of months depending on your team. Outside of your team, you definitely have the opportunity to socialize with co-workers, especially during trainings when you get to meet them. You also tend to use them as your therapists (except you really want them to shut up so you can vent), so you lean on them a lot. It is definitely a team-oriented job in that everyone needs to do their job for the audit to be efficient and of decent quality. As far as people being boring go, given that most people are between 22-28 and like to have fun and go out a lot, I definitely wouldn't categorize it as boring - especially when compared to regular companies where the medium age is 35 and everyone has pictures of their kids on their desk and go to lunch to the same place every day. Not sure where your friend works - but either that particular office has a bad culture, or your friend doesn't like to socialize.
Sunday, 23 December 2012
Different types of partners
Eight posts in 2 days, not bad. Since I've caught up on questions, wanted to blog about something I've been meaning to touch on -
Partner personalities fascinate me. In the beginning, I thought it took a certain kind of personality to become a partner. But having worked with so many partners over the years, I've realized that there is a wide diaspora of personalities that make it to the big leagues. Let's break it down -
a) the partier - These are the partners that are all about client service, not so much the audit work. They come in, chat with the clients, set up dinners, hang out with the audit team, talk about the issues at a very high level, and then head out. They are rarely in the office, and you always wonder what they do on a daily basis.
At the same time, you really want to be like them. These partners are great to have when you're hoping to reduce work, set up happy hours, etc. but when it comes to accounting issues, good luck.
b) the i-don't-give-a-shit partner: These are the partners who just don't care about most issues. You bring up an issue, they ask you to come up with a solution, and then either say yes or no. Most issues are just not big issues, and they'll probably end up siding with the client in that it's not material. In order to survive as such, they'll make sure to pad their teams with rock stars so they can relax at home. They probably work 3-4 days a week, and rarely a full day.
c) the unresponsive partner: These are the partners you have to email/call 10-11 times to respond. Only other way to get their attention is to ambush them in their office. They'll then bring up issues at the last minute when you don't have time, so you have to scramble to work overtime in order to address their issues. Problem with these unresponsive partners is that they always have good questions right towards the end.
d) the anal partner: Oh how I hate these types of partners. Once you reach partner, you'd think your level of review/requirements would go down, but for these partners, it actually goes up. This makes life for the senior manager - manager hell. You'll ask for all sorts of memorandums on everything and anything. Every little issue needs to be addressed. H-A-T-E working with them.
e) the reasonable partner - These are partners who know what they're talking about, understand that the Firm's requirements are sometimes unreasonable, and don't add undue burdens on the teams. They're good to work for since they can help explain how things work for you, and at the same time, make sure you contribute your worth to the team.
f) the jerk - This is the partner who is both unreasonable and unresponsive. He or she then blames you for not doing your job, even though you didn't receive the right guidance on what he or she is looking for. Because of the unresponsiveness, you take matters into your own hands, and are then reprimanded at the last minute when the partner actually reviews the work. They will make your life hell and make you want to quit. I know of a few who either quit or did everything in their power to roll off these specific jobs. I've been lucky so far, but don't want to jinx it.
g) the know-it-all: This is the partner who just talks, and talks, and talks. They actually like what they're doing and love explaining things to you, even though you probably don't understand half of it because it's so technical. They are very good at what they do, and you can always go to them with questions, but you will invariably end up doing more work and tackling more issues because of them. Not saying it's a bad thing, but still.
I'm sure I missed various other personality types. Feel free to touch on them in the comments section.
Partner personalities fascinate me. In the beginning, I thought it took a certain kind of personality to become a partner. But having worked with so many partners over the years, I've realized that there is a wide diaspora of personalities that make it to the big leagues. Let's break it down -
a) the partier - These are the partners that are all about client service, not so much the audit work. They come in, chat with the clients, set up dinners, hang out with the audit team, talk about the issues at a very high level, and then head out. They are rarely in the office, and you always wonder what they do on a daily basis.
At the same time, you really want to be like them. These partners are great to have when you're hoping to reduce work, set up happy hours, etc. but when it comes to accounting issues, good luck.
b) the i-don't-give-a-shit partner: These are the partners who just don't care about most issues. You bring up an issue, they ask you to come up with a solution, and then either say yes or no. Most issues are just not big issues, and they'll probably end up siding with the client in that it's not material. In order to survive as such, they'll make sure to pad their teams with rock stars so they can relax at home. They probably work 3-4 days a week, and rarely a full day.
c) the unresponsive partner: These are the partners you have to email/call 10-11 times to respond. Only other way to get their attention is to ambush them in their office. They'll then bring up issues at the last minute when you don't have time, so you have to scramble to work overtime in order to address their issues. Problem with these unresponsive partners is that they always have good questions right towards the end.
d) the anal partner: Oh how I hate these types of partners. Once you reach partner, you'd think your level of review/requirements would go down, but for these partners, it actually goes up. This makes life for the senior manager - manager hell. You'll ask for all sorts of memorandums on everything and anything. Every little issue needs to be addressed. H-A-T-E working with them.
e) the reasonable partner - These are partners who know what they're talking about, understand that the Firm's requirements are sometimes unreasonable, and don't add undue burdens on the teams. They're good to work for since they can help explain how things work for you, and at the same time, make sure you contribute your worth to the team.
f) the jerk - This is the partner who is both unreasonable and unresponsive. He or she then blames you for not doing your job, even though you didn't receive the right guidance on what he or she is looking for. Because of the unresponsiveness, you take matters into your own hands, and are then reprimanded at the last minute when the partner actually reviews the work. They will make your life hell and make you want to quit. I know of a few who either quit or did everything in their power to roll off these specific jobs. I've been lucky so far, but don't want to jinx it.
g) the know-it-all: This is the partner who just talks, and talks, and talks. They actually like what they're doing and love explaining things to you, even though you probably don't understand half of it because it's so technical. They are very good at what they do, and you can always go to them with questions, but you will invariably end up doing more work and tackling more issues because of them. Not saying it's a bad thing, but still.
I'm sure I missed various other personality types. Feel free to touch on them in the comments section.
Is the CPA critical?
Is having a CPA absolutely crucial when thinking about leaving big 4 public accounting for private/industry? How important is it to get that CPA done?
Absolutely critical. I cannot stress how important this is. I know of many companies that will refuse to see your resume if you do not have a CPA. I know a few individuals who couldn't get their CPA done and thus struggled to find a job elsewhere. They did, after months and months of job searches, but it's hard for a recruiter to sell you if you don't have your CPA.
Unfortunately, people associate CPA with competence, and so regardless of your experience, if you are in the accounting world, the lack of the CPA is looked at as a slight.
Personally, I think it's overrated. I still remember this one individual who passed his CPA within a few months of starting at the Firm - he asked me about the debits and credits of some basic accounting issue. And I thought to myself, how can you reward CPAs to such individuals? If you memorize your way through the CPA, then I really don't want you working for me.
Absolutely critical. I cannot stress how important this is. I know of many companies that will refuse to see your resume if you do not have a CPA. I know a few individuals who couldn't get their CPA done and thus struggled to find a job elsewhere. They did, after months and months of job searches, but it's hard for a recruiter to sell you if you don't have your CPA.
Unfortunately, people associate CPA with competence, and so regardless of your experience, if you are in the accounting world, the lack of the CPA is looked at as a slight.
Personally, I think it's overrated. I still remember this one individual who passed his CPA within a few months of starting at the Firm - he asked me about the debits and credits of some basic accounting issue. And I thought to myself, how can you reward CPAs to such individuals? If you memorize your way through the CPA, then I really don't want you working for me.
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